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April 08, 2005

MBK

Part of an interview with Mehdi Belhaj Kacem, from Ironie. An intriguing slice of Parisian philo-culture and the force of the 'Badiou effect' within it. MBK's Évenement et répétition is a possible candidate for undercurrent amateur translation next...

Interview Ironie / Mehdi Belhaj Kacem

Somewhere in a café, evening, 25 May 2003...

i . Literature, Depression and the Decline of the West

Rémy Bac : Depression and suicide. It-s a theme that returns in Évenement et répétition, as it frequently does in your work. The shadow of Artaud. At any given moment, you say that the streets of Paris and of Berlin are full of people who are depressive, stressed, etc-Whereas people in third-world countries are usually smiling. Very Houellebecqian, all that! This -suicide of western society in decline- thing.

Mehdi Belhaj Kacem : It depends which third-world country you-re talking about. Houellebecq? No, no. I know what you-re trying to say. I-m very much above such debasedness! (laughs) I-ve never been suicidal. If I had a really serious illness, which made me suffer terribly, maybe- I-ve always -" even in books that were really dark, like Society -" posed the question non-subjectively, even if that might be part of it, but interrogated depression and suicide in a different way.

R.B. : I ask you because you relate it to the political question.

M.B.K. : It-s political not to talk about it. -Suicided by society- is a pleonasm.

R.B. : It-s Chevènement-s famous phrase that you repeat at will to whoever will listen. Why does a minister of the interior never speak of depressives and suicides, so much more numerous than homicides-

M.B.K. : If one might dialecticise Badiou-s system, in Western systems one is far more on the side of representation, and where does murder come back in? In the mode of affects. It-s a philosophical question. There-s no depression in China, for example.

R.B. : Because it-s a collectivist society.

M.B.K. : Precisely. It-s really a question of breaching western condescension. If the westerners say: -Oh, the chadors in Iran,- well then, I say to them: -Look at a porno film over here.- I made a montage with Iranian women who are in the process of a divorce. You see the specialist judge in the quranic order who handles divorce cases. You say to yourself -Ah, oh, oh, this is going to be terrible,- but not at all! The girls defend themselves beak and claw. The guys are crushed, in general. Sometimes, they have nervous breakdowns, they-re on the verge of suicide. Care of the children is given to the mothers. So, I made a video montage. I put a porno film specializing in big tits, with these massive tits, where you see two girls under the shower touching each other and splashing water on each other with sponges. And there you go, that-s it! It-s breaching western condescension, the -it-s better over here.- It-s always like that. The Iranians, they-re a superior people, extremely complex. The Iranian revolution wasn-t just nothing, even if it was the islamists who came out on top. There have been revolutions elsewhere, it-s not necessarily the good guys who win, but it-s never entirely the other way around either. It-s what Deleuze said about the future of revolution and becoming-revolutionary. It-s not a question of moving towards a collectivism. For me, it-s a question of escaping the literary, artistic, hypernarcissistic, hypersubjectivist spirit.

Posted by robin at April 8, 2005 02:34 PM

Comments

Nice to see a post again, robin! and good work with the translation. t'is awesome.

right.

Is MBK actually K-Punk or what? lol!

Hmmm, I think for this dude to appreciate the full force of suicide he needs an epicurean moment. Anyone got a boat?

Plus he likes talking himself up, doesn't he? Perhaps that is just the french way... 'I've read it all...'

ok, enough of the derisory comments.

re his discussion of the virtual, I find it weird he heads towards the imaginary, it is far too humanist. in Deleuze's thought, isn't the virtual an intensive temporal manifold enveloping the actual? what the hell has that got to do with the imaginary? maybe he has some other conception of the virtual... hmmm or maybe I need to return to d&r!

Posted by: Glen at April 8, 2005 03:17 PM

hi glen – I find his attempted reconciliation of the virtual very strange too - definitely too neo-lacanian for it to constitute any recuperation of what is lost in the transition from deleuze to badiou. But I thought the interview (which I came across entirely by accident) was intriguing enough to disseminate (especially 'becoming turnip'!) btw, if he comes across as a bit of a superstar, bear in mind that MBK is apparently a movie actor as well as a philosopher...

I agree with the point about depression though - a walk down Oxford Street will confirm that for you any day of the week. It's probably not so bad in the antipodes....

Posted by: u/c at April 8, 2005 04:22 PM

An interesting and rather jolly interview, it has all the best and worst aspects of the characters who haunted the semiotext(e) issues of the 70s and 80s. The most extraordinary thing is perhaps the way in which he does not recognize the levels of privilige that haunts the people and discourses he mentions... for example to understand why Heidegger was a fascist - merely read the recent biographies of Karl Jaspers and Gadamar --- it makes perfect sense. And the virtual is strange reclaimed in the way that Levy does I think...

s

Posted by: s at April 8, 2005 06:44 PM

he doesn't suggest that Heidegger's fascism is incomprehensible though – or do you mean that discussion of his fascism at the philosophical level is otiose given the biographical predisposition...?

Posted by: u/c at April 8, 2005 07:49 PM

brief discussion of this over at my place....welcome back u/c!

Posted by: infinite thought at April 8, 2005 10:00 PM

No not that - merely that to understand Heidegger's fascism seems easier if you read his construction through his class bound existence. On a more serious note - I've been reading some Michele Le Deouff recently and the masculinity of his world makes me nervous.

Posted by: s at April 8, 2005 10:27 PM

That was interesting, thank you. I hadn't ever read anything that somehow put all philosophers on almost the exact same level (from this amateur at philosophy's point of view), even though he compares them all in a brutal way from which he seems to derive intense pleasure. Somehow I wish English was his native language, because even translated he sounds loud, vulgar and bumptious so that it is hard to pay any attention except when he talks about Deleuze and trivializes Heidegger. 'Becoming-turnip' and 'becoming-rat' were indeed good, because that might have something to do with masochistic taste too, especially if you've had past attractions to squalid moments of vermin. I had tended, for practical purposes, to veer towards 'becoming-horse' and 'becoming-woman,' for example, or even 'becoming-pregnant' through non-reproductive sexual acts, so that at least not all of mine sound snooty (surely the math, but I've not yet been forced...) I'm not going to worry about class-bound things when I hear such things, and will attempt to run and hide if it becomes too oppressive.

Worthwhile to read, because I haven't feared that I was a masochist like I used to for many years. With this, I was sure I was not, because I became very aware of a sensation of 'desire WITH lack' which seemed to make a nice dissonance for moments of 'desire without lack' that I think I had better consult him about first, I guess he'd think so 'if he had the time'. It was very pleasant knowing one's appetites could be controlled by reading this personage. It may be the mathematics, but it looks like plenty of people are taking care of that. We have all learned that to be unconvinced is the secret to something (that might be math too, what the hell, as long as I can remember something else that I won't tell.)

You are a tireless yeoman, u/c. One can now go ahead with art and literature (he did remind me of a few of those I ought to tarry with)without worrying that it has been proven to be a kind of spin-off of some science project that makes even the advanced young persons sound slightly posthumous.

Posted by: Patrick J. Mullins at April 8, 2005 11:51 PM

LOL!
I have to admit a part of my interest in this was extra-philosophical in so far as it fascinates me that people in the 21st century speak so assuredly as if philosophy is a hugely important tradition that is still alive and kicking and has great relevance. Elsewhere in the interview MBK salutes Badiou as 'his master' with no trace of irony. Yes, there is a (un)healthy dose of masculinity in there too. Basically, for someone accustomed to the anglo-american 'philosophy world' there's a hallucinatory quality about it all. The riddle is, whether philosophical reason fares better in a disenchanted, deterritorialized, self-deprecatory english mode which suspects the best is already far behind it; or in this undeniably positive, muscular climate of pederastic heredity subtended by a mostly unquestioned well-preserved bourgeois establishment and culture. And here we come back to s's comments re Heidegger...

Posted by: u/c at April 9, 2005 10:16 AM

Afterthought : Try reading MBK's discussion of the virtual against Manuel de Landa's ('Intensive Science and Virtual Philosophy')– now there's a measure of the breadth of possible interpretations of Deleuze.

“Nietzsche and Badiou, fighting the same battle, contrary to appearances. What is important is atheism.”
Think this is a nice point with relevance for the threatened eruption of idiotic dualisms and pointless philosophical gang-warfare in Badiou's wake (romantics vs rationalists...bundle!) as well as recent discussions on dread,walking.

Posted by: u/c at April 9, 2005 10:28 AM

'The riddle is, whether philosophical reason fares better in a disenchanted, deterritorialized, self-deprecatory english mode which suspects the best is already far behind it; or in this undeniably positive, muscular climate of pederastic heredity subtended by a mostly unquestioned well-preserved bourgeois establishment and culture.'

That's one of the two or three best, cleanest sentences I've read in the last eight or nine months. People should note it well if they wish to kill off the proliferating weeds in an increasingly competitive and dwindling market.

Disagree about 'atheism is what is important.' Think Baudrillard's 'whether God exists or not is of no importance' is much better for going about one's own business--and 'He' gets a lot less publicity that way, too. The other way makes me keep vaguely imagining banners atop marching bands playing 'Onward Christian A-the-ists, Marching off to War...'

Posted by: Patrick J. Mullins at April 15, 2005 06:46 PM

It *is* hallucinatory! Great interview.

In the interview you mention Castel's work on transsexuality... Do you know if anyone has translated Castels into English? I'd be very interested to read some, if it is.

Posted by: az at April 17, 2005 07:00 PM

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